Leon T4 1.8 180άλογα και haldex.
50% προκαταβολή + 48άτοκες δόσεις με υπερπλήρη εξοπλισμό.
Περίπου 27'500Ευρώ

Μπορεί επίσης να κοιτάξει και το Skoda Octavia με τον ίδιο κινητήρα και τετρακίνηση, στα 150άλογα. Υπάρχει και σε SW έκδοση (combi)
Περίπου 26'000Ευρώ

Τέλος υπάρχει και το Subaru Impreza 1.6 σε sedan και SW.
H SW έκδοση έχει και κοντές σχέσεις.
Περίπου 20΄000Ευρώ

Δεν μου έρχεται αυτή τη στιγμή κάτι άλλο στο μυαλό.

Mε 30000 - 32000 ευρώ παίρνει ένα πολύ καλά εξοπλισμένο Legacy είτε sedan είτε sw ( έχει και κοντές σχέσεις το sw ) ένα σαφώς πιο ολοκληρωμένο αυτοκίνητο από το Impreza 1.6 με τούρμπο ( από όσο ξέρω όχι και οτι καλύτερο από ποιότητα μετατροπής ) ή χωρίς ( ψοφίμι ). Βέβαια είναι δίλιτρο αλλά στην μετά τεκμήρια εποχή αυτό δεν είναι και τόσο σημαντικό κατά την γνώμη μου, σίγουρα ασφάλιστρα και τέλη είναι πιο πολλά αλλά όπως και να το κάνουμε παίρνει ενα πιο ολοκληρωμένο αυτοκίνητο από κάθε άποψη.

Forester X ίσως;

Ο χρήστης enginekiller έγραψε:
Οπως ειπα 1.6 το πολυ 1.8

Οι επιλογές είναι λίγες και έχουν προαναφερθεί από τα παιδιά πάνω...

Από μένα Οctavia 1.8T 4x4...value for money

Να μην παρει το Impreza 1,6 turbo.

Ο χρήστης lefos-WRX έγραψε:
Να μην παρει το Impreza 1,6 turbo.

Υπήρχε και σχετικό θέμα εδώ μέσα με παιδιά που είχαν τραβήξει τα πάνδεινα από τα 'ελληνικά' τουρμπάτα 1600άρια Ιmpreza.

Τότε δεν μας μένει παρά μόνο το Octavia που είναι παλιό μοντέλο και μπροστά στο Octavia 5 μοιάζει απλώς παλαιολιθικό.
Ας ρίξει ένα βλέφαρο στο Legacy οταν διαθέτεις τόσα λεφτά για αμάξι είναι μάλλον άτοπο να θέτεις ως όριο τα κυβικά. Άποψη μου βέβαια αλλά νομίζω οτι έχει μια λογική. Δύσκολο πράγμα η αγορά αυτοκινήτου...

Ο χρήστης enginekiller έγραψε:
Γιατι ρε παιδια τι τρεχει με τα Impreza;

Πασχουν απο διαχειριση και μιλαω μονο για τα turbo 1600 που φτιαχνονται εδω με παραλληλο εγκεφαλο ο οποιος δεν ειναι ή δεν ηταν της προκοπης, μια και εχω ακουσει οτι στα τελευταια μοντελα τον εχουν αλαξει.
Επειδη τα ξερω πολυ καλα αυτα τα αυτοκινητα μια ειχα το συγκεκριμενο αλλα σε ατμοσφαιρικο 3,5 χρονια αν δεν ενδιαφερει καποιον το γκαζι ειναι παρα πολυ καλο αυτοκινητο και ειδικα το wagon που εχει και αργο, θα προτεινα λοιπον 1600ΤS ατμοσφαιρικο ή σαν πιο ολοκληρωμένη λυση Legasy.

Aν ψαχνεις για πραγματικο τετρακινητο θα παρεις subaru,evo η την καινουρια 156crosswagon η οποια δυστυχως βγαινει μονο με τον πετρελαιοκινητηρα!Αν κανεις υπομονη μερικους μηνες θα βγει η νεα 156 η οποια περα απο την τετρακινηση θα εχει και ενεργητικη τετραδιευθυνση και θα διατιθεται με ολες τις νεες βενζινοκινητες εκδοσεις!

Ο χρήστης enginekiller έγραψε:
Απο τιμες για την crosswagon; Το 1600ΤS είναι ατμοσφαιρικό; Αυτο με τα 150 αλογα δε λες; Το Τ τι σημαινει; Εχεις κανενα link για την τετραδιευθυνση; Κατι ειχα διαβασει στο 4Τ αλλα δεν πολυθυμαμαι.

Οχι η Alfa Crosswagon Q4 διατιθεται με τον βραβευμενο ως πετρελαιοκινητηρα της χρονιας 1.9multijet με 150hp.Θα αρχισει να διατιθεται στην ελλαδα σε ενα μηνα περιπου.Δυστυχως η τιμη υπερβαινει το οριο του φιλου σου αλλα οταν θες πραγματικο τετρακινητο και οχι φθηνες λυσεις με συνεκτικο συμπλεκτη η επιλογη ειναι μονοδρομος.Subaru,mitshu η αλφα!Η συγκεκριμενη crosswagon ειναι υπερυψωμενο τετρακινητο και προοριζεται και για χωματινες εξορμησεις.Υπαρχει και τετρακινητη εκδοση μονο για ασφαλτο 156 sportwagon Q4 αλλα δεν ξερω αν θα διατιθεται και ποτε?
http://www.alfaromeo.it/cgi-bin/pbrand. ... 1073783932

Τιμη στην ιταλια
http://www.alfaromeo.it/cgi-bin/pbrand. ... 1073783929

Καλη αναγνωση
Μεταφραστης
http://www.systransoft.com/

Four Wheel Drive
The Alfa Crosswagon transmission features four permanently engaged drive wheels, three differentials and torque distribution preferentially to the rear. The Torsen C differential continuously modulates torque distribution between front and rear axles according to grip. This feature makes for a sporty drive that in turn increases active safety.

The mechanical modulation is continuous and progressive. It conveys an optimum driving sensation that is satisfying and easy for the driver. Torque distribution takes place without any time lag. The car's grip performance adapts gradually in linear fashion to changing road conditions. This mechanical system is complemented by an electronic system for extra performance and safety margins in line with the Alfa Romeo philosophy. The Crosswagon is absolutely cutting edge as far as engineering is concerned and offers unexpected benefits.

1. Ride comfort. The increased ground clearance and generous tyre size brings a decided improvement when driving over obstacles while the stiffer body helps lower sound resonance effects. Because not all the torque needs be transmitted through the front axle, it has been possible to configure the geometry of the double wishbone front suspension for ride comfort.
2. Permanent traction makes it possible to increase roadholding, driving satisfaction and smoothness of response. No other four wheel drive, implemented using electronic couplings, can offer the same optimum balance between oversteer, understeer and smoothness of response typical of the Crosswagon, that translates into great roadholding and active safety. Preferential torque distribution to the rear axle adds further driving satisfaction because vehicle handling is improved while guaranteeing maximum stability during sudden high speed lane changes on the motorway, as sometimes happens during emergency manoeuvres.
3. Off-road performance is also better than expected. The driver need no longer fear transmission lag and the combination of electronic and mechanical control makes differential locking effective in extreme conditions. For example, the car negotiates demanding obstacles like twists, where one wheel is completely off the ground, with complete aplomb.

In short, the Crosswagon is four wheel drive Alfa Romeo style: an essentially mechanical system complemented by the most advanced electronics to assure maximum driving comfort together with optimum performance and total safety.

ELEVEN YEARS AFTER THE DEBUT OF THEIR LAST HIGH PERFORMANCE FOUR WHEEL DRIVE MODEL, THE 164 Q4, ALFA ROMEO WILL LAUNCH TWO NEW MODELS WITH THE Q4 BADGE AT THE PARIS MONDIAL THIS AUTUMN

The Crosswagon Q4, with its rugged off-road looks and raised ride height, and the more smooth and refined Sportwagon Q4, will aim to live up to a strong Alfa Romeo tradition of combining four wheel drive traction with out-and-out performance characteristics.Both of the new models will be equipped with permanent four-wheel-drive and a TORSEN C differential.
A history in 4x4 technology
With their sudden focus towards 4x4 vehicles, Alfa Romeo's rich history of producing such models is often overlooked._
Alfa Romeo's first 4x4 vehicle made it's debut as far back as 1951, and was designed by Guiseppe Busso for the Italian Defence Ministry. The project started life as a Willys Jeep which was acquired at Lugano and fitted with a 1900 engine. This became a working prototype with a lightly camouflaged front end.
Codenamed the AR51, the production version used a detuned engine, sourced from the 1900 berlina, delivering 65 hp. An AR52 civilian version was also produced alongside until production ceased in 1955. In total, 2.059 AR51's and only 154 AR52's were built respectively. This excludes 6 initial prototypes, including a diesel engined version._
In 1952, a pair of AR51's were entered in the Mille Miglia, of which one won the military category.
Nicknamed La Matta, or ‘The Mad Old Woman’, for its seemingly crazy off-road capabilities, this original Alfa 4x4 model is now a highly sought-after collector’s item. _
The La Matta was to be Alfa Romeo's last official 4x4 until the introduction of their Alfa 33 1.5 4x4, which was launched at the end of 1983. The 4x4 system on this car was not permanent and could be engaged by means of a lever in front of the gear lever. A year later saw the launch of the Pininfarina-designed Giardinetta version and represented one of the first so-called 'lifestyle' estates.
In 1991, the recently introduced Alfa Nuova 33 was fitted with a sportier interpretation of the 4x4 concept. The system, which was fitted to the Permanent 4 versions, was more complex than its predecessor and incorporated a set of sensors which managed the action of a viscous coupling. When the sensors detected significant differences between wheel rotation speeds across both axles, power was transferred to the rear wheels. This feature provided the 33 P4 with outstanding dynamic performance and active safety.
A year later, in 1992, the impressive 155 Q4 was launched. This car came equipped with a 2.0 turbocharged engine and was capable of 0-100 km/h in 7 seconds flat.__
Developed from the legendary Lancia Delta Integrale, the 155 Q4 boasted a 4x4 system with three differentials: a conventional unit at the front; a central epicyclic unit that engaged directly with the gearbox layshaft incorporating an integral Ferguson viscous coupling; and a TORSEN unit at the rear. Under normal conditions, the central distribution provided the rear wheels with slightly more power. If one of the two axles lost grip excessively, the Ferguson coupling cut in to transfer drive torque (up to 100%) gradually to the wheels with more grip. The efficacy of the system was further increased by the TORSEN rear differential that acted as a self-locking unit and allowed the wheels to turn at different speeds.
This transmission configuration was combined with particularly advanced ABS. This technical configuration ensured that the 155 Q4 remained sure-footed and safe in every situation. These attributes were also displayed by the V6 TI racing versions which were entered in the DTM German Touring Car Championship. The 4x4 Alfa Romeo's beat the rear-wheel-drive competition from Mercedes into submission.
The technology from the 155 Q4 was later applied to the stunning Italdesign-Giugiaro Schighera concept cars from 1997.
Alfa Romeo's incredible technical experience in 4x4 technology was applied to the range-topping 164 Q4 in December 1993. The 4x4 system had been further developed to ensure maximum performance and peak driving comfort. The heart of the system was the central Viscomatic viscous coupling developed exclusively by Alfa Romeo in conjunction with Steyr-Puch.__
The Viscomatic system was managed by an onboard electronic system that communicated in real time with the engine and ABS control units. Every split second, the system detected and processed information on four different parameters: total drive torque requested, speed, steering angle and traction difference between the axles. It was able to adjust drive torque distribution between the axles with incredible speed on the basis of vehicle speed, cornering radius, engine rpm, throttle opening and closure and ABS parameters. This guaranteed improved torque distribution at any moment and in any situation. In this case too, the Q4 drive system was based on a TORSEN self-locking rear differential. This rear differential was responsible for the important task of redistributing the torque allocated to the rear end (in real time) between the wheels on the rear axle: this benefited traction and also car handling over mixed routes. An epicyclic unit was also fitted between the coupling and rear differential to amplify speed differences between coupling input and output. This made it faster and more sensitive while reducing the level of torque managed by the coupling.
The new generation
Alfa Romeo's latest assault on the all-wheel-drive market will be led by the Crosswagon Q4 and Sportwagon Q4. Both will be equipped with permanent four-wheel-drive and a TORSEN C differential. _
Whilst the ride-height of the Sportwagon Q4 will not deviate from the standard 156 range, the Crosswagon will have an increased ground clearance by 6,5 cm. The Crosswagon will also come equipped with protective off-road cladding, including aluminium trim on the door-bottoms, reinforced bumpers with aluminium mouldings, an original bumper grille, all-purpose bars and rugged wheel arch extensions. Shod with specially-designed 225/55 all-season tyres, the Crosswagon will come standard with 17-inch alloy wheels of a handsome 8-branch multispoke design.
Inside, the car features new dials, a digital compass mounted in the rear-view mirror, special carpeting and mats, a new high-tech lining for the facia and centre console and, on request, an exclusive MOMO leather upholstery.
The new permanent 4-wheel drive transmission has three differentials, and torque distribution favouring the rear axle. Torque distribution between the front and rear axles is continuously modulated, depending on the grip of the TORSEN C central differential.
The self-locking TORSEN C differential makes better use of engine torque: when accelerating, for example, it can deliver around 70% torque to the rear wheels. This eliminates the chance of understeer and torque steer. In oversteering situations, the figure of rear-wheel-drive is only 40%.
The mechanical modulation is smooth and continuous, thus giving the driver the impression of an excellent, smooth and easy ride. In terms of grip, the car adapts gradually and linearly to changing road conditions.
At the cutting-edge in technical terms, the Crosswagon provides unexpected benefits.
The Crosswagon will come with a 150 bhp version of the 1.9 JTD 16V M-Jet, together with a 6-speed gearbox. _This will power the Crosswagon to 192 km/h and provide an acceleration time from 0 to 100 km/h in 10,2 seconds.
According to the manufacturer, the Crosswagon will consume 10,7 km/l of diesel in the urban cycle and 17,2 km/l in the out-of-town cycle. The combined cycle is 14.1 km/l.
The Crosswagon will be on sale throughout Europe from the beginning of October and will be available with three trim levels: Progression, Distinctive and Luxury. The latter will come with a full MOMO leather interior, whilst the Distinctive will come standard with leather seats, cruise control and a digital compass integrated in the rear-view mirror. Each trim level comes standard with six airbags, automatic dual-zone climate control and front and rear arm-rests

Αρθρα
http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=modlo ... e&sid=1864
http://www.italiancar.com.au/pilot/feature011.htm
http://www.autosital.com/article.php3?i ... 1176#13252
http://www.babez.de/alfa/cq4.php
Διαστασεις
http://alfa145.com/upload/016ss.jpg

Οσον αφορα την καινουρια 156 που θα παρουσιαστει τον απριλιο εκτος απο τετρακινηση θα εχει και ενεργητικη τετραδιευθυνση!Δες εδω! http://www.4troxoi.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6850
http://www.alfisti.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63

Ο χρήστης enginekiller έγραψε:
Το 1600ΤS είναι ατμοσφαιρικό; Αυτο με τα 150 αλογα δε λες; Το Τ τι σημαινει;

Ολα τα 1600αρια λεγονται TS και ειναι τα παρακατω.

1.6 TS 95hp
1,6 TS S Turbo 150hp
1,6 TS S Turbo 180hp