Ο χρήστης Nikos! έγραψε:

Όπως και η FIA λέει στην ανακοίνωσή της ότι έπρεπε να ενημερωθεί κάτι που δεν έγινε από κανέναν.

Δεν σε επιασα εδω. Τι θελει να πει ο ποιητης

Here you go:

2013 Monaco Grand Prix
Note to the Media

Εδώ λοιπόν λένε από τη FIA ότι δεν είχαν καμία ενημέρωση, απλά, καθαρά και ξάστερα.

Μεγια τα ματι ματια μου. Το σχολιο σου το διαβασα.

Όπως και η FIA λέει στην ανακοίνωσή της ότι έπρεπε να ενημερωθεί ΓΙΑ κάτι που δεν έγινε από κανέναν.

Για αυτο και δεν καταλαβαινα τι ελεγες σχετικα με την πληρφορηση της ΦΙΑ.

Σου υπενθυμιζω ομως οτι μονη αρμοδια ειναι η Pirelli για την αδειοδοτηση για το συγκεκριμενο τεστ και οχι η Μερκ. Αυτο λεμε. Οσο και να ψαχνουμε στα σπορτινγκ δεν θα το βρουμε.

Απο την αλλη πλευρα ΑΠΟΚΛΕΙΕΤΑΙ Η ΦΙΑ ΝΑ ΜΗΝ ΗΞΕΡΕ και να εγινε κρυφα.

ΥΓ. Κοιτα τις 2 πρωτες παραγραφους που μιλαει η πρωτη για το συμβολαιο, η δευτερη για την ενημερωση που εγινε απο την ΦΙΑ sthn Pirelli και την Μερκα που λεει οτι αυτο ειναι τεστ της Pirelli AS OPPOSED to the team and driver that will provide the car (αληθεια το as opposed ποιο meaning εχει μεσα σε αυτη την προταση ) και η τριτη που ενω λεει απο εκει και περα δεν πηραμε καμμια πληροφορια πεταει για πρωτη φορα το take part IN THIS TEST.

Ο χρήστης Hannibal έγραψε:
Σου υπενθυμιζω ομως οτι μονη αρμοδια ειναι η Pirelli για την αδειοδοτηση για το συγκεκριμενο τεστ και οχι η Μερκ. Αυτο λεμε. Οσο και να ψαχνουμε στα σπορτινγκ δεν θα το βρουμε.

Όχι η Pirelli ρε συ...η FIA.

Ένα ωραίο αρθράκι από τον James Allen:

was behind Mercedes and Pirelli secret F1 tyre test?
Posted on May 27, 2013
XPB.cc

The F1 paddock in Monaco was in ferment on Sunday over the story of Mercedes’ secret Pirelli tyre test in Barcelona the week following the recent Grand Prix.

Mercedes and Pirelli say that they got approval from the FIA for the test. The FIA disputes some aspects of this, while Ferrari and Red Bull launched a protest and on Sunday morning were seeking allies among other teams. But some bad blood over previous protests in which those teams did not support others meant that some other teams did not join them, despite wanting clarification too.

So what is this all about? Did the FIA agree to a test of a 2013 car and did Mercedes benefit in a way that will make them more competitive this season? And what is the likely outcome? Here is our analysis after extensive discussions around the Monaco paddock.

What is the nub of the issue?

The FIA F1 Sporting Regulations clearly state that teams are not allowed to test current F1 cars during the season, except for straight line aerodynamic tests and the Young Drivers test. They are allowed to run cars that are two years old or more.

In Pirelli’s agreement with the FIA they can call for a team to supply them with a car for testing, especially where there are urgent question marks over safety. After the recent spate of tyre failures – the first being Mercedes’ spectacular failure with Lewis Hamilton which caused him to take a five place grid penalty in Bahrain as it broke his gearbox – there was a need to test. Ferrari conducted a 500km test with a 2011 car before the Spanish Grand Prix, while Mercedes ran for three days (15th-17th May) at Barcelona after the other teams had packed up and left.

The issues here are: 1. Why was there no transparency? 2. Why did Mercedes use a 2013 car? 3. Did Mercedes gain any competitive advantage for this year’s championship by doing this? 4. What exactly did the FIA sign off on and how much of their plans for this test did Pirelli and Mercedes share with the FIA?
The Stewards in Monaco, which included Tom Kristensen as driver steward, heard from Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari on Sunday evening and filed a report for a competent body such as an FIA special tribunal to consider.

The transparency issue was answered by Pirelli. They say that in the current climate, if they openly discussed such a test beforehand it would be engulfed in politics and discussion and would never take place. So they preferred, along with the FIA and willing teams, to do the test to get the data they need and then do the talking afterwards.

The FIA says it was not aware that Mercedes would use a current car with its current race drivers and states that its approval was conditional upon the test being run by Pirelli, not the team. (NB- Last year Pirelli used a two year old Renault with Jaime Alguersuari driving, engineered by the current Lotus race engineer Mark Slade.)

Why Mercedes? And did they get any advantage from the test for this year?
When I spoke to Pirelli’s Paul Hembery about this he said that he wrote to all teams last year inviting them to make themselves available for this kind of work. Some said yes and others said no. After the failures in Bahrain emails went around and Pirelli was granted the opportunity to test. The tests were set up with Ferrari and Mercedes. Ferrari ran a 2011 car with Pedro de la Rosa at the wheel.

Mercedes is known to be hardest on its tyres with peak temperatures some 20 degrees above what other teams were experiencing and it was the victim of the Hamilton failure. The tyres tested in Spain were a mixture of development products; some solutions for Montreal addressing the delamination problems, some ideas for 2014.

Pirelli says that they did not tell Mercedes what tyres they were testing, so they had no reference points. However some rival teams told this website that they know that Mercedes made changes in their approach to the tyres this weekend in Monaco, in areas like the suspension, for example, which showed that they had learned from the 1,000kms test.

Although Monaco would not really show up gains very clearly, as it is the most gentle track of the season on tyres and Mercedes’ Nico Rosberg set a very slow pace in the race to manage the tyres, we are likely to be able to see in Canada and especially Silverstone how much Mercedes learned from the test from how much their tyre wear in races has improved as a result.

What happens next?
The FIA will convene a tribunal to consider the stewards’ report from Monaco and assess whether a breach of Article 22.4 h of the FIA F1 Sporting Regulations has taken place. They will hear from Pirelli and from the FIA’s Charlie Whiting, who gave Mercedes permission to test, about exactly what he permitted them to do. If a breach of the Sporting Regulations is found to have taken place there is a tariff of penalties available but Rosberg will not be stripped of his Monaco win.

Mercedes and Pirelli are likely to argue that only a 2013 car would do for this test because they need to replicate the conditions that led to Hamilton’s failure in Bahrain and subsequent failures (mainly on the left rear tyre) to address the problem for the new products from Montreal onwards.

What is the bigger picture here?
Many things are up in the air in F1 at the moment; there is no Concorde Agreement six months after the last one expired, there is dissent over the new 2014 hybrid engines and their significantly higher costs and the commercial rights holder CVC wants to float the sport – so the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone and the 11 teams are very far from aligned at the moment and there is turmoil behind the scenes.

In this context, Pirelli is fed up with the failure of the sport and the teams to agree a new contract for 2014 and for being painted as the problem. They argue that the dysfunctional relationship between the teams and lack of trust between them over testing means that they are being put in an impossible situation by being asked to produce safe racing tyres which also provide a certain amount of ‘strategy’ in the racing, but without being able to test them on a race track. Previous tyre suppliers in F1, like Bridgestone did hundreds of thousands of miles of testing.

Their recent pronouncements have shown that Pirelli are fed up with being the whipping boy and are getting tougher in their stance; on Thursday Hembery said that Pirelli might not be in F1 next year if the teams, Ecclestone and the FIA don’t get their act together. That would put F1 in turmoil as it would be difficult for a new supplier to come in and tool up to produce F1 tyres at short notice in time for February testing, especially if they too have no opportunity to test the products on a race track.

Complicating matters further is the fact that the 2014 cars will make very different demands on the tyres due to new aerodynamic rules and totally different power delivery from the new hybrid engine and drivetrain units. They will have much higher torque, for example.

Pirelli clearly made a mistake by being more “aggressive” with the 2013 tyres despite having limited opportunity to test them beforehand due to the restrictions and it has suffered some reputational damage as a result. But now the matter has become intensely political and is about far more than whether the races are two stops, three stops or four stops.

This issue is not about testing, it’s about F1′s dysfunctionality at this moment.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/05/w ... tyre-test/

Υπογραμμισμένη η ουσία...και η ουσία είναι περισσότερο η έλλειψη διαφάνειας παρά για το αν κέρδισε κάποιο πλεονέκτημα η Mercedes.

Ο χρήστης Nikos! έγραψε:

Σου υπενθυμιζω ομως οτι μονη αρμοδια ειναι η Pirelli για την αδειοδοτηση για το συγκεκριμενο τεστ και οχι η Μερκ. Αυτο λεμε. Οσο και να ψαχνουμε στα σπορτινγκ δεν θα το βρουμε.

Όχι η Pirelli ρε συ...η FIA.

Σκατα. Γαμω την δουλεια μου. Τρωω λεξεις και γραμματα και γαμιεμαι στα εντιτ μετα. Εννοω να κανονισει την αδειοδοτηση / ενημερωσει την ΦΙΑ.

Ο χρήστης Nikos! έγραψε:
Ένα ωραίο αρθράκι από τον James Allen:

was behind Mercedes and Pirelli secret F1 tyre test?
Posted on May 27, 2013
XPB.cc

The F1 paddock in Monaco was in ferment on Sunday over the story of Mercedes’ secret Pirelli tyre test in Barcelona the week following the recent Grand Prix.

Mercedes and Pirelli say that they got approval from the FIA for the test. The FIA disputes some aspects of this, while Ferrari and Red Bull launched a protest and on Sunday morning were seeking allies among other teams. But some bad blood over previous protests in which those teams did not support others meant that some other teams did not join them, despite wanting clarification too.

So what is this all about? Did the FIA agree to a test of a 2013 car and did Mercedes benefit in a way that will make them more competitive this season? And what is the likely outcome? Here is our analysis after extensive discussions around the Monaco paddock.

What is the nub of the issue?

The FIA F1 Sporting Regulations clearly state that teams are not allowed to test current F1 cars during the season, except for straight line aerodynamic tests and the Young Drivers test. They are allowed to run cars that are two years old or more.

In Pirelli’s agreement with the FIA they can call for a team to supply them with a car for testing, especially where there are urgent question marks over safety. After the recent spate of tyre failures – the first being Mercedes’ spectacular failure with Lewis Hamilton which caused him to take a five place grid penalty in Bahrain as it broke his gearbox – there was a need to test. Ferrari conducted a 500km test with a 2011 car before the Spanish Grand Prix, while Mercedes ran for three days (15th-17th May) at Barcelona after the other teams had packed up and left.

The issues here are: 1. Why was there no transparency? 2. Why did Mercedes use a 2013 car? 3. Did Mercedes gain any competitive advantage for this year’s championship by doing this? 4. What exactly did the FIA sign off on and how much of their plans for this test did Pirelli and Mercedes share with the FIA?
The Stewards in Monaco, which included Tom Kristensen as driver steward, heard from Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari on Sunday evening and filed a report for a competent body such as an FIA special tribunal to consider.

The transparency issue was answered by Pirelli. They say that in the current climate, if they openly discussed such a test beforehand it would be engulfed in politics and discussion and would never take place. So they preferred, along with the FIA and willing teams, to do the test to get the data they need and then do the talking afterwards.

The FIA says it was not aware that Mercedes would use a current car with its current race drivers and states that its approval was conditional upon the test being run by Pirelli, not the team. (NB- Last year Pirelli used a two year old Renault with Jaime Alguersuari driving, engineered by the current Lotus race engineer Mark Slade.)

Why Mercedes? And did they get any advantage from the test for this year?
When I spoke to Pirelli’s Paul Hembery about this he said that he wrote to all teams last year inviting them to make themselves available for this kind of work. Some said yes and others said no. After the failures in Bahrain emails went around and Pirelli was granted the opportunity to test. The tests were set up with Ferrari and Mercedes. Ferrari ran a 2011 car with Pedro de la Rosa at the wheel.

Mercedes is known to be hardest on its tyres with peak temperatures some 20 degrees above what other teams were experiencing and it was the victim of the Hamilton failure. The tyres tested in Spain were a mixture of development products; some solutions for Montreal addressing the delamination problems, some ideas for 2014.

Pirelli says that they did not tell Mercedes what tyres they were testing, so they had no reference points. However some rival teams told this website that they know that Mercedes made changes in their approach to the tyres this weekend in Monaco, in areas like the suspension, for example, which showed that they had learned from the 1,000kms test.

Although Monaco would not really show up gains very clearly, as it is the most gentle track of the season on tyres and Mercedes’ Nico Rosberg set a very slow pace in the race to manage the tyres, we are likely to be able to see in Canada and especially Silverstone how much Mercedes learned from the test from how much their tyre wear in races has improved as a result.

What happens next?
The FIA will convene a tribunal to consider the stewards’ report from Monaco and assess whether a breach of Article 22.4 h of the FIA F1 Sporting Regulations has taken place. They will hear from Pirelli and from the FIA’s Charlie Whiting, who gave Mercedes permission to test, about exactly what he permitted them to do. If a breach of the Sporting Regulations is found to have taken place there is a tariff of penalties available but Rosberg will not be stripped of his Monaco win.

Mercedes and Pirelli are likely to argue that only a 2013 car would do for this test because they need to replicate the conditions that led to Hamilton’s failure in Bahrain and subsequent failures (mainly on the left rear tyre) to address the problem for the new products from Montreal onwards.

What is the bigger picture here?
Many things are up in the air in F1 at the moment; there is no Concorde Agreement six months after the last one expired, there is dissent over the new 2014 hybrid engines and their significantly higher costs and the commercial rights holder CVC wants to float the sport – so the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone and the 11 teams are very far from aligned at the moment and there is turmoil behind the scenes.

In this context, Pirelli is fed up with the failure of the sport and the teams to agree a new contract for 2014 and for being painted as the problem. They argue that the dysfunctional relationship between the teams and lack of trust between them over testing means that they are being put in an impossible situation by being asked to produce safe racing tyres which also provide a certain amount of ‘strategy’ in the racing, but without being able to test them on a race track. Previous tyre suppliers in F1, like Bridgestone did hundreds of thousands of miles of testing.

Their recent pronouncements have shown that Pirelli are fed up with being the whipping boy and are getting tougher in their stance; on Thursday Hembery said that Pirelli might not be in F1 next year if the teams, Ecclestone and the FIA don’t get their act together. That would put F1 in turmoil as it would be difficult for a new supplier to come in and tool up to produce F1 tyres at short notice in time for February testing, especially if they too have no opportunity to test the products on a race track.

Complicating matters further is the fact that the 2014 cars will make very different demands on the tyres due to new aerodynamic rules and totally different power delivery from the new hybrid engine and drivetrain units. They will have much higher torque, for example.

Pirelli clearly made a mistake by being more “aggressive” with the 2013 tyres despite having limited opportunity to test them beforehand due to the restrictions and it has suffered some reputational damage as a result. But now the matter has become intensely political and is about far more than whether the races are two stops, three stops or four stops.

This issue is not about testing, it’s about F1′s dysfunctionality at this moment.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/05/w ... tyre-test/

Υπογραμμισμένη η ουσία...και η ουσία είναι περισσότερο η έλλειψη διαφάνειας παρά για το αν κέρδισε κάποιο πλεονέκτημα η Mercedes.

Νικο λεω κατι διαφορετικο απο τον James Alain σε οτι αφορα κανονισμους?

Και βεβαια λεει πολλα παραπανω απο οτι η ΦΙΑ στην ανακοινωση της.... Που δεν εχεις υπογραμμισει....
Και μια και εχεις προχειρους τους κανονισμους. Βαλε μου μια τον 22.4 γιατι δεν τον θυμαμαι.

Ο χρήστης Hannibal έγραψε:
Νικο λεω κατι διαφορετικο απο τον James Alain σε οτι αφορα κανονισμους?

Και βεβαια λεει πολλα παραπανω απο οτι η ΦΙΑ στην ανακοινωση της.... Που δεν εχεις υπογραμμισει....
Και μια και εχεις προχειρους τους κανονισμους. Βαλε μου μια τον 22.4 γιατι δεν τον θυμαμαι.

Δε νομίζω να λες κάτι διαφορετικό, απλά η FIA λέει ότι δεν ήξερε τίποτα.

Τώρα θα δούμε ποιός έχει δίκιο και ποιός όχι.

Τελικά μπορεί και να μη γίνει τίποτα απολύτως και να κάνουν ένα 1000άκο χλμ δοκιμές οι υπόλοιπες ομάδας και να το θέμα να λήξει εκεί. Το βλέπω για settlement δηλαδή.

Here you go:

22.4 No track testing may take place:
a) Whilst a Championship Event is taking place.
b) With more than one car per day at any such test.
c) Before 09.00 or after 18.00 on any day at any such test.
d) On any track located outside Europe without the agreement of the majority of teams and the FIA.
e) During the month of August except under (h)(iii) below.
f) During the month of January.
g) Between 1 February and the start of the week preceding the first Event of the Championship of the same year with the exception of three team tests of no more than four consecutive days duration, carried out on a site approved by the FIA for Formula 1 cars.
h) Between the start of a ten day period which precedes the start of the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :
i) One three day young driver training test carried out on a date and site approved by the FIA following consultation with all teams. No driver who has competed in more than two F1 World Championship races may take part in this test and all drivers must be in possession of an International A Licence.
ii) Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January of the current year and the start of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind-on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.
iii) If a team declares that one of its current race drivers is to be substituted by a driver who has not participated in an F1 race in the two previous calendar years, one day of track testing will be permitted between the start of a ten day period which precedes the start of the second Event and the last Event of the Championship. The following must be observed :

• Any such day may only be carried out by the new driver and may not take place on a circuit hosting a race in the current Championship year.
• Any such day may only take place within a period 14 days prior to the substitution and 14 days after the substitution has taken place.
• If a team, having declared the driver's substitution and performed the test, does not then enter an Event with the new driver, the team will be penalised by a reduction of one day from the pre-season track testing days available in the following year.

Βασικά λέει αυτό που περιγράφει και ο Allen, ότι δηλαδή μπορεί να γίνουν μόνο straight line tests και young drivers test με μονοθέσια 2ετίας.

Ο χρήστης Nikos! έγραψε:

Βασικά λέει αυτό που περιγράφει και ο Allen, ότι δηλαδή μπορεί να γίνουν μόνο straight line tests και young drivers test με μονοθέσια 2ετίας.

Βασικα αυτο το λενε τα sporting regs και ο Allen sxoliazei oti.

H Ferrari εκανε 500κλμ δοκιμες πριν την Ισπανια με μονοθεσιο διετιας και τον Ντε Λα Ροσα και οτι το μονοθεσιο της Pirelli περισυ, ηταν a two year old Renault with Jaime Alguersuari driving, engineered by the current Lotus race engineer Mark Slade.

Ομως πολυ σωστα σχολιαζει και την θεση της ΦΙΑ που ειναι αλλη απο οτι εγραφε το note που μοιραστηκε στον τυπο οτι εγω δεν ηξερα, δεν ερανα δεν εκανα. Για συγκρινε αυτες τις δυο πληροφοριες.

Ο χρήστης Hannibal έγραψε:

Βασικά λέει αυτό που περιγράφει και ο Allen, ότι δηλαδή μπορεί να γίνουν μόνο straight line tests και young drivers test με μονοθέσια 2ετίας.

Βασικα αυτο το λενε τα sporting regs και ο Allen sxoliazei oti.

H Ferrari εκανε 500κλμ δοκιμες πριν την Ισπανια με μονοθεσιο διετιας και τον Ντε Λα Ροσα και οτι το μονοθεσιο της Pirelli περισυ, ηταν a two year old Renault with Jaime Alguersuari driving, engineered by the current Lotus race engineer Mark Slade.

Ομως πολυ σωστα σχολιαζει και την θεση της ΦΙΑ που ειναι αλλη απο οτι εγραφε το note που μοιραστηκε στον τυπο οτι εγω δεν ηξερα, δεν ερανα δεν εκανα. Για συγκρινε αυτες τις δυο πληροφοριες.

Ναι, ο Allen δίνει κάποιες περισσότερες πληροφορίες σχετικά με τους όρους του τεστ...το σημείωμα λέει άλλα.

Τεράστιο μπέρδεμα...

Περαν οτι τεχνικα φαινεται απολυτως λογικό αυτο που εκανε η πιρελι, πηρε το 'χειροτερο' αυτοκινητο που παρουσιασε ΧΟΝΤΡΟ προβλημα για να δοκιμασει οτι ηθελε να δοκιμασει τελος παντων, δηλ που να δοκιμαζε στην..... 312Τ??????

το αλλο ειναι οτι πρεπει να πιστεψουμε οτι ο Γουαιτινγ 'ηξερε' κι εδωσε το ok ( οπως λεει παντα το κειμενο) αλλα ΔΕΝ ηξερε η FIA....

Σας κανει λογικό???

Ο Whiting είναι ο υπεύθυνος της FIA για τέτοια θέματα!!! Πάντως πολύ μπλεγμένο είναι το όλο σκηνικό... κλασική F1 δηλαδή.

Εγώ πάντως, με το φτωχό μου το μυαλό, λέω ότι οποιαδήποτε από τις μεγάλες ομάδες ήξερε ότι προτίθεται η Pirelli να κάνει τέτοιο test, θα πετούσε την σκούφια της για να πάρει μέρος. Οπότε σίγουρα οι άλλες ομάδες δεν το έμαθαν, τουλάχιστον εγκαίρως. Συνεπώς κάπου υπάρχει πουστιά, σε τι βαθμό και πόσο θα επηρεάσει την εξέλιξη του πρωταθλήματος δε ξέρουμε ακόμα.
Το μόνο σίγουρο είναι όμως ότι κάτι παίχτηκε κάτω από το τραπέζι.

Ο χρήστης Bayern7 έγραψε:
Το μόνο σίγουρο είναι όμως ότι κάτι παίχτηκε κάτω από το τραπέζι.

Κι εκεί ακριβώς στέκεται το όλο ζήτημα, στην έλλειψη διαφάνειας.

Κάτι άλλο τώρα...αν αυτό το είχε κάνει η Ferrari, τι θα λέγανε?

Food for thought (IKE (R))

Nα σου απαντήσει ο ttc. Κάτσε τρολάρει στο άλλο τοπικό.

Ο χρήστης Nikos! έγραψε:

Το μόνο σίγουρο είναι όμως ότι κάτι παίχτηκε κάτω από το τραπέζι.

Κι εκεί ακριβώς στέκεται το όλο ζήτημα, στην έλλειψη διαφάνειας.

Κάτι άλλο τώρα...αν αυτό το είχε κάνει η Ferrari, τι θα λέγανε?

Food for thought (IKE (R))

Και για να συμπληρώσω, στην πουστιά μέσα σίγουρα έχει πάρει μέρος και η FIA, γι αυτό και οι 'ήξεις αφήξεις' ανακοινώσεις εκατέρωθεν.
Ρε πούστη μου είσαι η παγκόσμια ομοσπονδία και σου λέει ο μοναδικός προμηθευτής ελαστικών σου ότι θα κάνει τέτοιο τεστ και εσύ το μόνο που κάνεις είναι να τους πεις 'οκ αλλά ενημερώστε και τις άλλες ομάδες' (σύμφωνα με την ανακοίνωση της FIA αυτό) και μετά το ξεχνάς; Δλδ ρε γμτ δε μιλάς με τις άλλες ομάδες για ένα τόσο μείζον θέμα;

Πάντως η Lotus και η Force India λένε πως δεν τους είχαν ενημερώσει για τις δοκιμές.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... -tyre-test

Αν ακούω ιταλάκια και ειδικά φεραρικούς να κλαίγονται και να μιλάνε για πουστιές ΑΛΛΩΝ πεθαίνω στα γέλια!!!

Ποιον αλλον;

Ο χρήστης Silberpfeil έγραψε:
Αν ακούω ιταλάκια και ειδικά φεραρικούς να κλαίγονται και να μιλάνε για πουστιές ΑΛΛΟΝ πεθαίνω στα γέλια!!!

Μ' αρέσει που το υπογραμμίζεις κιόλας...

ΑΛΛΩΝ

Χαίρομαι ιδιαίτερα που η απάντηση σας με κάνει καλύτερο και ισχύει. Χαίρομαι επίσης που δεν έχει κάτι άλλο να προσθέσει στο θέμα.

τώρα ξύπνησες και ξεκίνησες να διαβάζεις το f1 topic? καληνύχτα